Category: News and Views
Ryanair is attacked for ejecting blind passengers
By Martin Hickman, Consumer Affairs Correspondent
Published: 13 October 2005
Ryanair, the no-frills airline, is under fire from disability campaigners for ejecting
nine blind and partially sighted passengers from a plane just minutes before take-off.
The passengers, who were travelling to Italy for a walking holiday, had completed
check-in procedures and were sitting on the plane at Stansted when the pilot announced
they would have to vacate their seats. They were then "marched" off and escorted
back to the airport lounge.
Some waited six hours for another flight while others were forced to sleep on the
airport floor overnight. One of the party was so distressed by the incident - to
be featured on BBC's Watchdog programme next week - she abandoned her holiday.
"It was dreadful. You felt like a criminal. We were all devastated," one of the blind
passengers, Beryl Barton, from Norwich, said. "Five minutes before take-off the pilot
asked: 'Are many of you blind?' and we said: 'Yes, one or two' and he said: 'We have
already got disabled people on the flight and you will have to get off'. They marched
us through to the lounge and this lady came and she said: 'Of course, you got off
of your own accord' and we shouted: 'No, we haven't."
There was no safety justification, she insisted: "We can all walk. We've all got
a partially-sighted or sighted guide. We could get off as quickly as anyone else."
Ryanair explained it could not take the customers because it already had three "disabled"
people on board (unconnected to the party) and it stipulates no more than four "disabled"
people on each flight. However, the organiser of the trip, Katherine Hurst said she
rang Ryanair eight months before she travelled to check there would be no problems.
She said: "The pilot said: 'How would you manage if the cabin was full of smoke'
but it wouldn't make any difference. They are used to not seeing."
Ryanair, whose chief executive is Michael O'Leary, has a controversial record on
disabled people. Last year, it lost a case brought by a disabled man who was charged
£18 for the use of a wheelchair. Afterwards it said that it would have to raise ticket
prices as a result.
The Royal National Institute for the Blind has received eight complaints about Ryanair,
an unusually high number about one company. In one case, it is considering legal
action. Jane Vernon, its legal officer, said: "I think Ryanair's whole attitude towards
disabled people is disgraceful. Saying on their website they are charging an extra
50p per ticket to pay for wheelchairs for disabled people is despicable."
Ryanair insisted its policy on disabled passengers was "clearly highlighted" on its
website and did not know of the RNIB's cases. It said it had "repeatedly apologised"
to the passengers removed from the plane.
In-flight turbulence
* Bob Ross took on Ryanair over being charged £18 for the use of a wheelchair at
Stansted in March 2002. When Mr Ross, a cerebral palsy sufferer, won the case , Ryanair
was quick to appeal, saying a 50p surcharge on all tickets would be levied to cover
the cost of providing wheelchairs. They lost the appeal.
* In March this year, Ryanair was fined £24,000 for misleading customers about the
price of flights from Stansted.
* This year, the airline, which charges employees for uniforms, announced that mobile
phones must not be charged at work.
* An advert launched just after the London bombings featured Winston Churchill saying:
"We shall fly them to the beaches ... we shall fly them to London" It drew 319 complaints,but was deemed "suitably respectful" by the Advertising Standards Authority.
well, this is the thing. i can see fault on both sides here. on the one hand ryanair definitely got it wrong with regard to letting these passengers onto the flight in the first place. however, and at the same time, these people are going to recieve a lot of simpathetic publicity, just because they were visually impaired, when in all honesty they shouldn't. i am a regular ryanair customer and can tell anybody that there websight does indeedd clearly state that they will only accept up to 4 disabled passengers per flight. if people choose to book these flights without reading all of the turms and conditions first then they really don't have the right to bitch and moan.
in short, i have no simpathy. that said i'm sure that the general consensis will end up being that they are poor blind and VI people who are clearly incapable of booking a flight without fucking it up so lets all feel sorry for them! Well ... not me.
For once I stronlgy disagree with Harp. There is absolutely no justification for only allowing 4 disabled people on a flight, especially blind people. The reason being that they will not need any special assistance in case of a crash, they can make their way to the exit just like anyone else. If they put in a special "meet and assist" request into their booking, which they must have done RyanAir should've notified them weeks in advance or switch them onto another flight, it is the airline's responsibility to regulate their passenger payloads and with due notice this would not be a problem. Oddly enough I sympathize with RyanAir charging for extra assistance, I don't see why blind people or disabled people who need special accodomations getting through airport security etc shouldn't be ok with paying extra 5 pounds (I think 18 is a bit over the top) or so for the services, I always tip the people who walk me through an airport and I fly basically every single weekend these days and I appreciate what the airline does for me.
In Ryan Airs case I would refuse to be removed from the plane and they'd have to carry me out, if their refulas was only on grounds of blindness, I'd only leave if they assured me of a free roundtrip ticket as compensation. If they, however, notified me up to 5 hours before departure and told me they'd have to put me on a later flight I would not have a problem with it. Once you are on a plane the airline has no right to remove you because of your dsability .. or it shouldn't at any wait.
Cheers
-B
... and at least they did not eject the passenger a cruising altitude. That's always something to be thankful for.
to a point I agree with dan, while I think that it is somewhat wrong of ryan air to have this policy, the fact remains, they do have the policy and it is clearly stated in their terms and conditions. If people don't read the terms and conditions of any agreement, then they are the ones at fault, in short, ignorance is no excuce.
sb, still it is a very questionable policy, an airline providing public service e.g. cannot state "no black people on this flight" or "no more than 5 women on this flight", I think, unless they give better reasons that this policy is not acceptable and I stick with what I said above, it's the air line's reponsibility to make sure their passengers have a smooth ride and if more than 4 disabled passengers book themselves on any given flight it is the airline's responsibility to reroute them. After all you don't know how many disabled passengers have already booked themselves on your plane, in fact you have no way of finding out since it is illegal for the air line to tell you. And if you are booking this flight to get to an important meeting e.g. how can you ever book with an airline that could throw you off simply for exceeding their quota of disabled people. If they alrady showed on their web site (which they can't do) how many disabled people were already booked that's different, and also you are not taking into account that they had been contacted previously with a booking for this group and had assured the group there would be no issues, not to mention my fundamental problem with this clause in the first place, as it relates to blind passengers at least.
I have to disagree with both of you this time around, I think this is ridiculous.
Thanks
-B
The other thing that worries me about this is that RyanAir is obviously trying to lower their general prices by cutting down on their services and while that is the hallmark of a low cost air line if they get away with refusing disabled passengers services and do well other air lines will follow suit, it's just like paying a disabled employee less money and getting away with it. Of course a company will encur the least expenses possible and once proen that it can do so other companies will inevitably do the same thing. I think there are certain fundamental rights that have to be respected and followed and rfusing a disabled passenger a flight on grounds off his/her disability, to me, does not seem to be a good way to go forward. Like I said, I'll accept charing that passenger a few extra pounds/dollars/whatever for the services that person needs is just fine in my view but even if this is a wheel chair passenger they cannot be thrown off a flight once checked in and on board due to factors that are completely byond his/her control.
Well, I agree that the passengers should have been told before they boarded the flight that they would be unable to travel, however, it doesn’t take away from the fact that the terms and conditions do clearly state that they will be unable to carry more than 4 disabled passengers, and by disabled, it is impossible too be specific. You can’t say, oh we can’t have more than 4 wheel chair customers but everyone else is ok, otherwise you’re categorising even further.
The likelihood is, that the reason they have this policy is for safety reasons. If, in the event of an emergency, the plane needs to be evacuated, someone needs to be there to help any disabled passenger, and yes, this would also be the case for blind passengers. Imagine being caught up in a panic of people all trying to get out and not being able to see where you’re going, and potentially not have anyone to help? The amount of potentially unaccompanied disabled people would have to depend on the amount of air crew on the flight, in reality, the t/c should be changed to say that only 4 unaccompanied disabled people should be allowed, but fact is, that currently that’s not what they state, and the people should have read them before booking the flight.
Just as a matter of interest, some other airlines have similar stipulations – it is, for example, not permissible to travel alone with more than one child under the age of 2 years, as both children need to be sitting on an adult for take off. So it’s not just the disabled who have the airlines coming down on them.
Hmm, I need to give this some thought, but surely there is a categorical difference between a person who can't walk and has to be carried to the exit and a blind person who can follow the crowd to the exit. Air planes are not exactly big spaces, you can't get lost and you'll be doing quite as well or badly as a sighted person in an emergencies (sadly this involves for the most part all of you dying together, but that's beside the point), although come to think of it in an emergency landing when you have to jump onto the slides there might actually be an issue so that's something I did not consider.
Still, well, for the particular hcase posted, the airline has to do a better job of their booking system and I would refuses to budge unless they guaranteed me a free future ticket, that's the rule at least in the U.S. if the airline messes up and its clearly their fault they need to compensate you, if the situation in which you miss your flight is beyond the airline's control (weather etc) that's different.
It's just that it's hard enough getting through airports as it is, take it from me. :)
Cheers
-B
Ok, it clearly states in this article 2 things that make your arguements void in my opinion. Firstly that all the blind people had either partially sighted or sighted guides with them, so wouldn't need extra assistance in an emergency. Secondly that the trip organiser Called the company 8 months in advance to make sure there would be no complications. Ryanair should have made it clear at that point when discussing the number of people in the party that they couldn't travel in that group. I agree that if the terms and conditions are clear on the website that these people should have read them and complied with them, however, I'm sure I'd be under the impression that it was ok if I'd called the company and been told so.
well, as i said in my first post b, i do agree that the way these passengers were handled, in terms of allowing them onto the flight before telling them that they couldn't travel was wrong. no complaints with that part of it. my problem with this complaint is that, as i said before, the conditions of carriage are clearly stated on the web sight when you book. it makes no difference at all whether these people agreed with the conditions or not. they are the conditions set by the airline and that's that.
as to the point you raised about whether these passenger restrictions should exist or not i can only say this. Ultimately it would be an airlines responsibility to clear an aircraft in an emergency. again from experience of the carrier involved i can tell you that they only have 3 members of cabin crew per flight. now when you bare in mind that by disabled passengers it doesn't just mean visually impaired people, it can also incorporate wheel chair users you start to see why these restrictions are in place.
like i say, i'm not for a second saying that the airline handled this situation well, because frankly it doesn't sound as though they did, however, some responsibility for what happened does fall on the shoulders of the people who purchased these tickets without fully reading the terms of the agreement that they were signing. that just annoys me a bit because they will now jump up and down declaring discrimination without accepting in any way that some of the fault lies with themselves. the fact of the matter is that if this were any other passengers with similar complaints, who had quite obviously signed an agreement that they hadn't read, they would be dismissed out of hand, but just because these happened to be disabled passengers it's almost as though the same rules don't apply. that's something i don't agree with hence the tone of my first post on this subject.
Dan.
Hmm, Dan, I see that point definitely. My problem does sort of lie with these restrictions in the first place and the fact that I think, as far as air travel is concerned, we are justified in treating blind people and people in wheel chairs differently. You must admit thoughthat it is pretty much unheard of and quite serious to march a person of the flight before takeoff, be it a sighted or disabled person. I think if someone sighted was escorted off the plane unless it was by police or given compensation that they would make a big fuzz about it. And that's my main problem with the news story too, like I said, I still think it's the air lines responsibility to inform them that they'd have to split up, or take later flights etc and I believe there are laws stating nimimum number of flight crew members per plane, depending on number of seats and I really do think it's ok for disabled passengers to have to pay something or be patient and e.g. wait till last to get on the plane etc, because I want equal treatment, not special treatment (well of course all blind Icelanders should always been given free booze and upgraded to first class, that's what I've always said, people just don't seem to agree).
But, I can see why those restirctions are in place but I think there just should be more of an open discussion and even regulations on a European level about what airlines are responsible for when it comes to disability, what they can and cannot do, I think there is a lack of standards there. It's all about sort of getting what you expect.
Cheers
-B
I realize it's been a while since anybody had anything to add to this thread but I came across this the other day while researching something totally unrelated and thought it may interest a few. I'll post what I found below.
Pressure rises for Ryanair
18 October 2005
Guide Dogs has protested to Ryanair, as pressure on the airline mounts following its refusal to allow more than four visually impaired passengers to travel.
In an open letter to the chief executive (attached), Guide Dogs' director of policy, Tom Pey challenges the airline over its 'restrictive policy', which
resulted in the 'awful humiliation' of blind and partially sighted travellers forcibly removed from a plane at Stansted.
Guide Dogs is prepared to carry out a test, to be supervised by an independent agency, simulating an evacuation involving visually impaired and sighted
passengers. The charity wants to demonstrate that those with sight loss are equally capable of disembarking an aircraft during an emergency.
The letter is replicated below.
Dear Mr O’Leary
I am writing to you in connection with the recent incident at Stansted when nine visually impaired people were asked to disembark from a Ryanair flight
from Stansted to Venice. It would appear from contact we have had with your press office that:
List of 2 items
• You have a policy of permitting only four people ‘with restricted mobility’ on any one flight.
• That this policy was agreed as reasonable by the UK’s Disability Rights Commission.
list end
We have checked the latter contention with the Disability Rights Commission who deny it absolutely and have issued a press statement to this effect. It
would appear, therefore, that the only undisputed fact in the matter is that your organisation has a restrictive policy as outlined above.
I am not writing to you to attempt to tell you how badly those people felt when they had to undergo the awful humiliation of being told that not only were
they different to other passengers, but also they were a risk to the safety of their fellow travellers.
Just as the Disability Rights Commission has sought to contest the fact that they have given some form of agreement to your policy we would now invite you
to cooperate with us in discovering the fallacious preconceptions upon which your policy was built.
So as to avoid your organisation practicing contempt prior to investigation in the future (the foundation upon which discrimination is built), we are prepared
to carry out a test, to be supervised by an independent agency, whereupon we would simulate the emergency conditions on an aircraft on the type you used
at Stansted. We would evacuate the aircraft under those conditions, using non-visually impaired passengers, then using four visually impaired passengers
and then using nine visually impaired passengers.
This test would allow us to determine whether or not nine ambulant blind people would indeed cause any material delay in evacuating an aircraft.
On a personal note, I am a visually impaired Irish man living in England. As a nation us Irish are thought of as being kind, welcoming and caring. It
is as much a part of our tradition as beautiful scenery and well known beverages. I am sure that you will do all you can to restore our reputation and
by participating in our test you will have gone no small way in this process.
I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience as we would like to press ahead with the test prior to Christmas, thus making the season’s
travel more accessible to more blind and partially sighted people.
Yours sincerely
Tom Pey
Director of Public Policy and Development
I have never flown ryanair but my experience has been that a lot of flight crews and airport staff in general, assume that someone who is blind or visually impaired is not capable of getting on or off a plane for example. This is utter bullocks. I am as mobile on a plane as a sighted passenger is. If it were me that this would have happened to, they would have been very sorry! And when they booked the tickets, they should have been told about this ludicris restriction on the part of rianair. Or, the airline should have told them at some point, before they entered the aircraft. This is the kind of thing that happens when people with various kinds of disabilities are all lumped into one catagory.
Ryanair changes policy on blind.
The group said they were "publicly humiliated"
Budget airline Ryanair is changing its policy on carrying blind passengers after ejecting a group of nine from a flight at Stansted.
Vision-impaired passengers travelling with sighted companions will no longer have to advise the airline in advance.
These travellers will also not be included in the airline's safety limit of four disabled passengers per flight.
The group from Norwich had boarded a plane bound for Italy in September when they were asked to get off.
Priority boarding.
The airline staff said it was because the flight had reached its safety quota of disabled people.
The group - members of the Norfolk and Norwich Association for the Blind - was made up of six blind and three partially-sighted people who were travelling with three carers.
Trip organiser Katherine Hurst said that when the party arrived at Stansted they checked in as normal, were given priority boarding and took their seats.
She said a member of the cabin crew then told the group they had "more disabled people than they were allowed to carry".
Members of the group said they had been "publicly humiliated", and one woman was so upset she abandoned her holiday.
Common-sense change.
They were split up on to two flights, and some had to spend the night in the airport.
The change of policy followed consultation with the National Council for the Blind of Ireland.
Ryanair head of customer services Caroline Green said: "This is a common-sense change."
However the budget airline said vision-impaired passengers travelling alone would remain part of the rule.
i don't think that will be enforced for long. i can't see how that will be allowed to stay if am honest. certainly when i attended the NFB convention when I traveled back from Kentucky last year when I traveled to detroit there were tons of our lot on 1 plain, it just won't be tollerated.